Exit stories: Testimony from former members

I have received numerous e-mail from people who have recently left Generations Church. Their stories are so fascinating and convincing that I am compelled to start this special blog area for those former members who would like to share their "exit" stories on this site.

Because I know Rich and his gang often seek revenge on those who speak out against their cult, I allow anonymous postings. Also, when contacting me through e-mail at john@generationscult.com, I will always honor your personal requests to remain anonymous.

Feel free to share your experiences regarding your decisions to leave Generations. Some questions that you might consider answering are: Why did you leave? How were you treated after you left?



 
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  • 8/8/2007 9:03 PM Former Member wrote:
    When we left the church our "leaders" had the attitude of "you'll be back" Like it was them we needed, not God. We walked away and haven't regretted the decision even once. I run into Generations people often. Those who are leaders snub me, I get an akward acknowledgement at best and that's usually in a situation taht they will make themselves look bad if they don't acknowledge me. Most of the time I'm ignored or avioded. It's pretty stupid actually- where is the Christian love they talk about?? When I was new in the church and would ask about so and so who isn't there anymore the reason I was usually given was that they were struggling with issues or backsliding ... When somebody leaves, it's kept real quiet and they act like you never existed.
    Former members who are reading this... speak up! John has provided this forum for us to share and to vent our experiences. To express what happened to us without being told that we were in rebellion. I choose to remain annonymous and John has respected that. Word needs to get out about this place so that others are aware.
    Reply to this
  • 8/17/2007 9:34 PM jonathan wrote:
    its true. other yuma churches really do get the generations church rejects who left because they couldnt stand actually being discipled.
    Reply to this
    1. 11/4/2007 1:09 AM GenX wrote:
      I know who you are. I find it typical that you would say this. You are very predictable, but you are only spewing the "love" of Generations
      Reply to this
    2. 3/12/2008 8:19 AM Ben wrote:
      You are totally wrong. Think of the disciples, when Judas betrayed all of them, are there any stories or mentionings of them shunning him? Did they call him a reject and ignore him? He knows that he did wrong and tried to correct what he did. If you shun those who leave your beliefs behind, you are worse than Judas.
      I attended your church for a while in the past and I grew up in a Christian home, and have been very active. Being a Christian is not new to me, but Generations treated me like I knew nothing. The teachings do not have the MEAT of the bible and are only breadcrumbs beefed up with G12 juice to give it more substance. I completely understand a regimented system for teaching and bringing up leadership, but realize this (all you G attendees). God wants us to be fishers of men, but not carbon copies of one another. G does not teach that we each have our own gifts and skills. Refine your skills in God's holy fire and use your skills and talents to honor him, to win people with his gifts, not with the same push and annoying plug that the other 15 people used to get you into their Cell.
      Do you ever read in the bible that the Disciples were chastised for not bringing newbies to Christ's teachings? Did Peter ever get cut down when he didn't invite somebody that week? Not everybody is the Jehovah's Witness type running around town trying to "hook, line and sinker" people into the Church. We are supposed to win people to Christ with our lives, with how we handle stressful situations, difficult times, our speech, our everyday actions. The world will know you are different and will wonder and ask.
      Christ does not operate on your heart without your permission. Why should G come to your door like a greedy/needy salesman and tell you that you need a heart transplant. You don't truly win souls (or friends for that matter) when you don't win them with love. These are all things of Christ. He healed you without having to beat you down first. It's not a Military boot camp of break you down and rebuild you. Christ doesn't have to do that, he heals you and makes you perfect and new by his grace. Yes, we all are human and sometimes it takes catastrophic events to break down our pride, but that is the nature of sin. Think again about how your church teaches. Seek the truth from the bible. Your leaders stifle personal growth unless they cultivate it. they are not the gardener, Christ is and he alone can keep the weeds out. Your church has stifled divine callings and leadings because your leaders feel they must control it all. If it's not for your leader, it's not of God. Sorry, they don't have the only Hotline to heaven...
      Reply to this
      1. 3/13/2008 5:24 PM GenX wrote:
        I totally agree with you Ben. I am wondering if I know you personally, but that's irrelevant.

        Since leaving the "church" there in Yuma, I've had a hard time trusting other churches. This is because I don't want to allow the abuse to be revisited upon my family or myself.

        God wins souls, God saves us through Jesus Christ...we only present Him to them. We arrange the meeting, God and the person do the rest.

        Generations feeds you tidbits of the Bible, skewed to their "theological" slant, then browbeats you into submission and acceptance. If you disagree then you are a REBEL!!! We all know where REBELs GO!!!!??? (sarcasm intended)

        Anyone that truly wants to know Jesus NEEDS to escape that place and read the WORD everyday in its entirety.

        God Bless Ben. Stay strong and in the Lord.

        GenX
        Reply to this
      2. 11/12/2008 7:58 PM GenLover wrote:
        umm...after judas betrayed Jesus, he felt so anguished that he killed himself...since youre bringing up that story, maybe you should kill yourself too...hahahaha just cuz you cant hack our level of discipleship doesnt mean that you should hate us for you mediocrity. grow up...all of you.
        Reply to this
        1. 11/24/2008 9:55 AM Ann wrote:
          GenLover,
          You have got to be kidding?!?!?! Level of discipleship? You are owned. You are no more than a puppet to them. When John first exposed this 'church' Rich called an urgent meeting among his followers to warn them of this site. He compared it to sin to even look at what John and the other have to say. He doesn't want anybody to see the truth!!!
          WAKE UP!!!!!!!
          Reply to this
          1. 9/29/2009 6:17 PM A Cult Survivor wrote:
            THIS IS TRUE!!!!!!! I WAS THERE!!!! LMAO YOU SHOULD HEAR WHAT THEY SAY IN LEADERSHIP MEETINGS NOWDAYS...INBETWEEN CURSE WORDS THAT IS! LOL
            Reply to this
        2. 10/7/2009 10:48 AM Noneya wrote:
          You just proved everyones point about Generations in one small paragraph. Jesus would NEVER ever speak as you just did. Telling someone they could kill themselves? Seriously? How dare you state that you are a christian or have any level of discipeship. There is one verse that is fitting for you. JESUS WEPT. That is what he is doing right now over you.
          Reply to this
          1. 11/6/2010 6:01 AM SELAH wrote:
            I totally agree with you!, "kill yourself" should never be in the mouth of a professed believer more so someone who claims to have a level of discipleship.
            Reply to this
    3. 5/7/2008 10:19 AM usedbyreligion wrote:
      its going to be really hard for you when these frauds are exposed and you realize everything they've ever taught was a silly, manipulative, little lie to get into your pockets. i'll be praying for you, dude.
      Reply to this
    4. 9/29/2009 6:13 PM A Cult Survivor wrote:
      I know who this is also and to this day I break out in a cold sweat when I think of what you guys did to me! Reject me? HA!! I REJECT YOU AND GENERATIONS! I lost everything in my life because of your lies and emotional battery! You destroyed me. (and no it was not because I couldn't handle discipline! or being "discipled" as you call it. My life pre-generations is proof of this!) But I am here to tell you now...I survived! And quietly, in my own way and time (I only say in my own time because unlike you God and my family take precedence over all else) I will reveal all publicly and then you will no longer be able to hide!! Be afraid....be very afraid.. You aren't honestly stupid enough to think you could have a congregation that large without someone in it willing to take risks to expose the truth did you? Remember my words the next time you "disciple" someone. It could be me. HAHAHAHAHA
      Reply to this
    5. 5/26/2010 9:35 PM mike wrote:
      Seems to me all the Generation church rejects stay and try to brown nose their way in to Rich's a**.
      Reply to this
  • 8/19/2007 3:48 PM WHAT?!?!?!? wrote:
    WOW Jonathan...is that how you see it. People decide that Generations isn't the right church home for them so they are considered rejects? Where's the love in that? Sounds to me like you think Generations is the only church doing anything out there. NEWS FLASH>>>
    You're church isn't the only church out there doing something for God. Get over yourself and your superior attitude. Remember that God saved us all and there is no man that is favored over another! God loves us all the same so stop spouting out the crap Rich has put in your head! We don't want to hear it!
    Reply to this
    1. 10/2/2008 9:59 AM Jeffery Boggan wrote:
      AMEN to that!
      Reply to this
  • 8/19/2007 9:50 PM Former Member wrote:
    Get a clue Jonathan! Think for yourself! Discipled? No, you are owned. Rich and whoever your cell leader spoon feed you exactly what they feel you need to know. Don't bust on other Christian churches in Yuma....that's the problem with Generations ... they think they are superior to all other churches. Aren't we all worshiping the same God? Or is Generations the only church with a ticket to salvation?
    Watch the population in the church.... That was our first clue. We noticed people getting saved each and every week and heard so much about how the church was growing.... but at the same time the seating wasn't getting any tighter. That's because people are getting out of there quicker than they are coming!
    Reply to this
  • 10/2/2007 7:43 PM I remember wrote:
    I remember when Rich was just starting and how people that he now looks down on went out of their way to help develop him and pour into him. He knew NOTHING and had a vision that didnt extend beyond the end of his nose. Now he has the gall to say that HE is the only real church? He wouldnt know what a real church was if it bit him. He is just one of the nerdy geeky kids we all knew in highschool and now he grew up and has people worshiping him so he is overcompensating for being a reject his whole life. It is sad that he is damaging lives in the process.Grow up rich.
    Reply to this
  • 11/4/2007 1:12 AM GenX wrote:
    The only way to truly be free of them is to stop associating with them on any level. You MUST read the Word daily and make sure you KNOW it. They will try to use friends, relatives, love interests, and the like to woo you back. I have been offered jobs and positions of authority to come back. Just to shut me up. LOL! Good luck with that ladies and gents.
    Reply to this
  • 2/5/2008 11:32 AM Another former member wrote:
    My child ran into one of the pastors of Generations- she said that she was glad to see that our family was still involved in a church even though we had left generations. She went on to say that a lot of people who leave don't ever continue in their Christian walk. I made me think of the damage they do to so many people- they win them to the Lord then scare them away from the Lord- many times forever.
    How cunning the enemy is to work thru a church to take souls away from Christ.
    Reply to this
    1. 1/15/2011 5:48 PM Art wrote:
      Not only did my wife not continue the Christian walk but she totally changed religions, all thanks to the treatment at Generations. Nice job Rich! Keep saving those souls.
      Reply to this
  • 5/7/2008 10:13 AM usedbyreligion wrote:
    I’d be lying to myself if I said I wasn’t bitter about the circumstances that ultimately forced me to reconsider attending generations. The truth is much darker than that. I feel betrayed by this filthy cult. Everything this church had me believe was simple truth skewered to the likeness of selfish imposters until it was nothing more than lies. This place is truly sinister. My only advice to those considering active participation here is don’t. The heartache may be too much to handle…
    Reply to this
    1. 5/8/2008 10:37 AM GenX wrote:
      Hey man, I feel your pain, but don't give up on God. You were seeking Him and that counts! Pray and stay in the Word. Stay strong!

      God Bless.
      Reply to this
    2. 5/15/2008 7:53 AM shouldveknownbetter wrote:
      I have a real issue with this church. My husband and I attended for quite some time and really fell love with the people and the vision of the church. It was great as long as you were in agreement with what they said. When we decided to leave, it was because we had questions that our leaders didn't have answers for. My husband was really hurt by the people he thought were his friends. First the pastor told him a few choice words concerning my husbands character and then everyone stopped talking to us all together. Now we go to a great church that is rooted in Christ and the pastor is accountable to someone that is actually in the same country. My hubby still has a hard time trusting people because he doesn't want to have the same hurt come back. I know that people aren't perfect and that even pastors make mistakes. But monumental mistakes that could change a persons attitude and cause them not to trust anyone is wrong. And whats worse is that they don't think they did anything wrong. They are Kings kids and deserve the best. But when they look at the rest of us who don't go to that church, they see people who are not as good as them. They need to know that God is no respecter of persons and that we are all a part of the body of Christ. We all have different callings and God loves us all the same! We are all Kings Kids and we need to treat each other with respect.
      Reply to this
      1. 5/17/2008 11:51 PM GenX wrote:
        This is so typical...

        Many never return to any organized church again. At least you folks haven't given up on God completely.

        These frauds are all about mind control, money control and generally controlling every facet of your life.

        Cross them and you better be strong or have a support network to deal with all the slander, innuendos, and flat our verbal abuse.

        They are amazing.
        Reply to this
    3. 9/29/2009 6:26 PM A Cult Survivor wrote:
      I feel your pain...they ripped my heart out with their lies and professions of love for me while they belittled me for being physically disabled and unable to work. They destroyed any sense of wellbeing I had. However, I know what they did has NOTHING to do with God.
      Reply to this
  • 6/5/2008 8:43 PM Radical Fish wrote:
    I was with Rich before he even broke off into his own youth church. The "church" name kept changing every few months and the rules became more and more strict. I was just a kid in high school and he made me part of an *exorcism* he performed on my 15 year old friend. He wanted to make me a leader at his youth church and they prayed over me to get the gift of tongues. I didn't feel it was right so I didn't speak it. They said I wasn't blessed enough by God to become a leader yet. I finally left the youth church when I had regular panic attacks on the nights I couldn't make it to church and was told to pass out tracks to kids at my high school ironically accusing THEM of being in cults. He told me I would burn in hell forever because my parents had me baptized catholic to false idols and I BELIEVED him!

    He told us if we set out clothes on fire, evil spirits would come out of the smoke because only sinner girls wore tank tops in 120 degree summers. But one day, I started asking questions. And the more I asked, the more angry he got. He said if I "was a better Christian" I would know where to find the answers. My mom told me "if HE was a better Christian, he would have SHOWN you!" One night I was really sick and he said if I really believed in God, I would go to church anyway and God would heal me. Apparently I wasn't holy enough because my mom took me to the hospital not long after the service ended.

    It's been twelve long years, and I still struggle with some of the lies he and his people fed to me, to my brother, my sister, my boyfriend and my friends.

    I believe Rich has a passion for helping youth and a strong heart for the Lord. However, I believe the Evil One has taken his mind and his church captive. I pray for them. For the congregation. For every one of you who've left the church, I pray that God moves a might revolution in that town. I moved away years ago, but not a day passes that I don't think about all of you.

    If there is one thing I learned from my experience with the Witmers, it's that NOTHING can surpass the power of God. My escape is a miracle that I thank God for every day.

    Yes, the ideology is wrong and damaging so many lives. But we have to be the ones fighting for those who can't even see the battle.

    No one ever thought The Door would change. If Generations wants a revival, let's pray for God Himself to show up and rock through that church like a mighty earthquake. Pray for Him to destroy that temple... and build a new one.

    Y'all know He's done it before. ;) If you believe in miracles, then don't stop praying until you see one. I'm still fighting from the other side of the country. Who's with me?
    Reply to this
    1. 7/5/2008 9:39 AM Serenna wrote:
      I am with you!!!! I had the same horrific experience,however; I believe my husband and I are very lucky because it only drew us closer to GOD and our families. I thank God for keeping his hand over us and allowing us to grow from our experience and not crumble.
      Reply to this
    2. 9/28/2009 3:52 AM Tanya wrote:
      It's funny that he would say that you would "BURN IN HELL FOREVER FOR BEING BAPTIZED CATHOLIC" considering that his wife Meliisa (my Cousin) was baptized, communioned, confirmed and raised Catholic until she met Rich (a recovering [bad person]). Melissa's father is a Deacon at Saint Francis Catholic Church in Yuma. Except for Melissa and her children our whole family is Cahtolic.
      Reply to this
  • 7/5/2008 1:45 AM ~Seek_The_Truth~ wrote:
    I am glad that there are other people here who sees that church for what it really is. It seemed as if they constantly tried to force me into doing and believing what they wanted which we all know force doesnt come from God. He is there with open arms ready for us to seek him. If anyone happened to even slightly dissagree with anything Pastor Rich or any of the "so-called" Leaders said then they would automatically be looked down on as a sinner. We are all unique, with different minds and different ideas, thats what makes us so special. Not some carbon copy of eachother. If that were the case, God would have just created us all as Robots. It's been a few months since i've attended Generations or any other church. I am seeking a strong well grounded, HUMBLE church. So if there is anyone here who knows of a great church in Yuma please reply and let me know :)
    Reply to this
    1. 7/14/2008 9:09 PM Tracy wrote:
      First Christian on 32nd. We did some searching when we left generations and found this to be a wonderful church. Very mature, humble, GENUINE.
      Reply to this
    2. 9/30/2008 6:01 AM Jeffery Boggan wrote:
      Champion Christian Church is also a great place to go. Friendly people, and no pressure. The pastors there are wonderful, and quite a few of Generation's "rejects" have moved on to there.
      Reply to this
  • 9/30/2008 5:22 AM Jeffery Boggan wrote:
    I was part of the original "144" in the very first Encounter in 2002. I am a former Marine, and was sucked in very quickly. I was part of his associate pastor's cell. I was not quite fitting the "mold" during the schools of leadership. I had to work, and the Corps came first, but it was my "lack of faith" that was keeping me away from church. Eventually, I started to lose friends, inside and outside of the church. People from back home could not recognize me, I was so brainwashed.

    These people broke me down, and made me believe that I needed them as much as I needed God. There are great people there at that church, so I will not condemn them, or even hate them for what they put me through. I was eventually told that if I was caught hanging around certain former members of the church, that I too would be removed from community as they were.

    It was then I realized that when I was told that I could not associate with people that were "in the world" that I started to draw away from them. It is ironic that the very teachings they helped me learn, were the catalyst to my departure from the church. Jesus was around sinners on a daily basis, and he was there to help them. When someone tells you who you can and cannot be friends with, they are no longer looking out for you, but are trying to get a foothold into your personal life.

    After leaving, I was told that "You will be back," and I can say that no...I have not been back. I will never go back. I then moved to another church in town (where I found more "rejects" from Generations) and I found a place that loved me no matter what I offered, or who my friends were, where I was from, what my lifestyle was, or who I was in general.

    I will not hide my identity. I do not fear a church or its members that are several hundreds of miles away from me. I was part of Brian's cell, and he made me feel like I was below a human being. This is my commentary and opinion, if you do not like it, that is your problem. The truth is not always a pretty thing.

    I love Jesus, and that will never change. Since leaving the church, I have been blessed beyond imagination. My personal growth with God has been unfiltered by anyone wanting to control me.

    I am now a full time college student, a senior manager at a hospital, and powerful force in my community. I am not perfect, and I am not the greatest Christian. But I have become greater than I could ever have in Yuma.

    Many of the members there that I remember were fantastic individuals. And I thank them now for their kindness. But leadership is severely flawed, and may need to step out of their own shoes for once and see what we see.

    Even though the people there may not like me for what I have said, I still love them. Even though they made me hate people, and even myself, I still love them. I love them, because that was Jesus' OTHER commandment.

    Thank you John for this open forum. You may want to look into writing a book.
    Reply to this
  • 10/1/2008 12:45 AM smallwolrd wrote:
    Rich doesn't practice what he preach. he always preach about forgiveness but he himself dont wanna release forgiveness.
    Reply to this
  • 10/20/2008 10:44 PM GenX wrote:
    I was part of Kevin's Cell. We've seen the same things and experienced the same lies. I am here to say that this man is not lying nor is he a reject!

    Glad you are free brother! Hope God blesses you where you are at!
    Reply to this
    1. 6/7/2009 5:43 AM former G12 leader wrote:
      I was also part of the 12, I was in Rich's 144, as well. well I was "missing" the fellowship of those who said they "loved" me so much. I text my "leader", he wrote back and said. "repent and seek forgiveness". Funny, I don't remember sinning when he screamed at me in the back of the church like a demon right before service, and threw me out. Anyways. i wrote back and said. I found forgiveness and repentence at the Cross as scriptures said and as my leaders taought me. If I neeed to do any "confessing", to man, it would be catholism (sorry catholics, no offense here). He never replied. Mind you, he wrote me 3 days after I initially wrote him. The Holy Spirit again assured me that this man's heart was not of God. Because if God's love abided in him, then he would know I still am God's child and he would still fellowship with me. As Rich instructed all those that knew me, not to fellowship with me, nor was I allowed to contact anyone. Is that the love of God? We supported and upheld generations until this all was revealed to us when we asked God to reveal to us the truth. The truth came. I haven't heard one good word about Generations since leaving. Now would Jesus allow that? No, the time will come. I am glad I am gone before it does.
      Reply to this
  • 1/4/2009 4:05 PM Brad wrote:
    I think God in his mercy is holding back sweeping away Generations. One thing that is needed is for those who have left to come together and build a net to catch those who will be scattered when God moves. All of these comments are really good and they are things needed to be said. Now you must get to work and build a foundation for others. I have seen enough maturity in your comments to know that collectively you can do this.
    Reply to this
  • 1/6/2009 7:22 PM Radical Fish wrote:
    Brad, that's exactly the miracle I've been praying for ever since I found this website more than a year ago. I only wish I lived closer. But I believe God will indeed move in the right moment. Your words are so encouraging to me. Thank you. :)
    Reply to this
  • 1/8/2009 7:06 AM David Coulter wrote:
    I was a part of this "church" for just about 4 years. I myself became a youth cell leader within the last year of my membership. I had seen many things in my time there. Some good, mostly bad. Several experiences I had that really jolted my time included the following.

    I and another female member had grown rather fond of each other. We would talk on the phone late at night and even told each other that we liked one another. Once our cell leaders found out we were both told to stop all the late night communication and that we needed to repent. At first I was told we could still be friends but this quickly changed once Pastor Rich found out. Both I and the other girl amongst the rest of the youth cell leaders (who apparently were doing the same thing) had been called to a meeting with Rich. He was very upset telling everyone that they were sinners and needed to repent to him. If they did not then he would pray to God, find out what they were doing wrong and then he would punish them. Many leaders went to the front and confessed their "sins" to him. I did nothing for I felt that liking someone and talking to them is not a sin. Nothing was ever done physically between me and the girl so I felt nothing was wrong.
    Many times my family, especially my brother was talked down upon because they did not faithfully attend their church.
    During my time at Generations I dressed and looked very differently from other members. This was something I was constantly criticized for by fellow youth cell leaders. Whats strange about this is that many of those same people now look and dress exactly how I did.
    Another experience I had happened to be the night of my birthday. I was attending church and was relieved of any of my duties that night (door greeting, ushering, etc.) because it happened to be my birthday. Well soon after my arrival another female cell leader told me I had to go greet at the door. I told her it was my night off and I wanted to be with my cell but she didnt care. She yelled at me that it was my duty as a cell leader and forced me to do the job. On a personal note no one, not even my cell leader acknowledged my birthday.
    Upon my departure my cell leader wanted to meet with me and discuss my reasons. We both meet at his house and I clearly told him that I could not attend because I couldnt stand being put down by other youth cell leaders who I called my friends. He didnt really understand and still constantly called me for several months.
    After about 6 months of leaving Generations I found a myspace created by another former member which I joined and commented on. Unfortunately Pastor Rich found the same website and belittled both me and my brother saying we only left for our "girlfriends" which might I add we started dating only a few weeks prior to his post (nowhere near the time we left the church). I rebuttled back telling him not to question my faith because he had no right to. I was broadsided with tons of messages and comments...
    Reply to this
    1. 9/29/2009 6:41 PM A Cult Survivor wrote:
      It is funny how Rich has so much time on his hands to check up on former members when he cant even find time for his current "sheep". ...apparently God has not healed him of his control issues...this strikes me as very close to stalking. HMMMM just a thought....
      Reply to this
    2. 11/10/2013 6:26 PM former_CLeader wrote:
      I can understand what you went through. I liked this girl in church who was a sister of a senior member. We did nothing wrong, I praised God for allowing me to meet such a beautiful person. Yet just giving a little gesture became offensive. My cell leader would often keep talking to me about my "heart" as if it is in constant pain. Yes it is because of the bondage this creates. It was also my birthday and none of my CG even greeted me, just because I was going through some tough times that I did not want the Church to be involved in. Whats worse is that my CG leader did not even check up on me and even "rebuked" me for not seeing the truth that is in Christ. I did not backslide, I found another home where my soul can prosper and grow.

      I still love the girl, but as long as she is in that system, I can only pray.

      We are not in Church to uproot our leaders, but our leaders help us uproot God - that we may win more for His Glory. We do not win so that they may look like us.
      Reply to this
  • 1/8/2009 3:28 PM David Coulter wrote:
    ...(including ones from my former cell leader) saying I lacked faith and was idiotic and wrong for even questioning their beloved pastor.

    I lost many friends to this church, including my best friend of about 12 years who we invited their. I see many of them around town and get a ho hum greeting. I even work with some and told them my story but still get an invite to cell?
    This church definetely rattled my Christianity and I did have a time were I slumped in a deep depression. Fortunately God picked me up out of that. Im loving him again and have my life on track. I am also not afraid to hide my identity and have no problem letting anyone know who I am. I fear for all the members of this church who do have a great heart for people but have been blinded by their pastors and leaders idealogy. But all we can do is pray to God and hope the scales will be lifted off their eyes. Thanks to anyone who reads.
    Reply to this
  • 1/11/2009 2:38 PM Brad Ryden wrote:
    Part One. I am reading these comments and it is so sad. I am a writer and have been through this before, long before Rich came around. I am adding one of my first published essays on the subject. I also was present at the creation and eventually Rich asked me to leave, thank God. Here is the essay.

    Where is Jesus going?


    The other evening I was sitting at home and experiencing God dealing in my life concerning some personal issues. I grew increasingly frustrated with my mind swinging from one side of the issue to the other. Finally I simply blurted out “I’m not going any place Jesus isn’t going, if he isn’t going there, then neither am I”. I was relieved, because it settled the issue, and I knew then that it was my responsibility to find out where Jesus was going, especially concerning the issue I was dealing with.

    I can remember twice that I had to make radical choices concerning whether I was going to go where Jesus was going or not, even if it meant going alone.

    From the 2nd of April through the 5th of May in 1972 God introduced himself to me and challenged me to surrender to the sacrifice of his Son, Jesus Christ. I remember distinctly sitting in a prayer meeting one Saturday night three weeks after I first heard the Gospel. It was a setting that only Jesus could have engineered. Here was I, a prodigal Episcopalian, sitting in a Catholic Charismatic prayer meeting in a women’s college academic building with 399 people standing and praising God. I was the only one seated; I at least wasn’t going to be a hypocrite. Sitting there though I went over in my mind all that I heard in the last three weeks.

    On the evening of April 4th 1972 I was asked to attend a prayer meeting. As the meeting progressed my heart was beginning to open up, I was hearing the Gospel for the first time, it was personal, it was talking to me, where I was, and who I was. For the next three weeks I was ministered to and challenged to accept Jesus as my personal savior. That was how I got to be sitting in a prayer meeting with 399 people standing around me praising God and definitely in a different place than I was.

    I said to myself, or, heard a still small voice, I don’t know which, saying; “Well Brad, what are you going to do about it”. (Meaning everything I had heard the last three weeks) I knew Jesus was going somewhere and if I wanted to go with Him I had to decide. I took a leap of faith that Jesus was who He said He was and He had died for MY sins, and the door was open for me to have a personal relationship with Him. I stood out of my chair and began to praise the Lord.
    Reply to this
  • 1/11/2009 2:40 PM Brad Ryden wrote:
    Part Two

    The song they were singing was a favorite from that time, I have decided to follow Jesus; I even remember the verse that was being sung, “…thou none go with me still I will follow.” As I stood up I remembered thinking to myself if someday I would have to go alone with nobody to go with me. As time went on though I realized that when you go with Jesus, go where He is going, that you are never alone.

    I began fellowshipping with a group called Street Church where I felt at home. It was people who were, my age and most had come from similar spiritual paths. The head of the ministry was seeking the Lord but, as so often happens in para-church ministries, grew increasingly suspicious of other ministries and churches and more confidant of his “own” revelation than God’s word. John increasingly isolated us as his distrust of others grew. It eventually led to where all of these things end, a-we–them situation, we being Street Church, and they being all others, especially all other Christians. I had talked to him in the afternoon one day about the sermon he was going to preach that evening. It was going to be his statement, ex-cathedra, of where he was leading us, he was going to tell us that we were right and everyone else was suspect at best and wrong in there ability to hear God.

    I knew that this was going to be as far as I could go with the group. It broke my heart because I had made good friends and was happy to see God using me. I stayed upstairs in the chapel that night praying. After the meeting I asked one of the other deacons if John had preached the “sermon”. He had. I scribbled out my resignation and went and handed it to him in front of everyone. In the next few minutes I was asked to leave and virtually lost all of my friends.

    Ten years later on one of my return trips to Erie I saw some of my old friends and they greeted me as a brother. John had continued to lead the group astray and eventually confusion reigned, John fell into immorality, and the sheep scattered. For the most part now they are doing well, God was able to build upon the wreckage and like he does all the time, he turns time backwards and works all to our good. I remember though one thing all of these people said to me. “We wish we had known what you had known”. In retrospect it wasn’t a matter of what I knew but the having the courage to go where Jesus was going. I knew He wasn’t going where John was leading the group and I had to bring to life that verse though none go with me still I will follow.

    Going with Jesus is a matter of trust, faith, courage, and allowing what Colossians 3-16 says, let the peace of God rule in your heart. Only God’s peace through his word is infallible, it is the one thing that the devil can’t duplicate, but you have to dig down deep into your heart to find it. You have to be willing to go there alone and find Jesus.
    Reply to this
  • 1/14/2009 7:24 PM Jennifer Ward wrote:
    This is an e-mail that Jennifer Ward received from Pastor Rich Witmer G-12 Yuma, AZ, in September 2008. Witmer sent this e-mail to me after I had written him with grave concerns of the G-12 church that I attended until recently. Witmer's e-mail deminstrates his immature, conniving, and evil nature.
    ------------
    Hi Jen,

    3 Things:

    1. I am in the Philippines for 19 days. We are meeting with 1,000s of pastors.

    2. My son has an amoebic parasite and we have been with him constantly when we are not ministering.

    3. You have confirmed my initial feeling about you: You are a rebel and an enemy of the Kingdom of God.

    I will be at WOFC in October. If you are there, I will be glad to prophesy over you. You will not enjoy the prophecy. Problems in the Church can be fixed. Problems in your character will destroy your life. You are a rebel. I will be glad to forward your emails to Pastor Ryan to ensure that he knows that you are a traitor to the Body of Christ. Thanks for reading the books and ignoring the priniciples.

    You obviously are only concerned about those things in your own backyard to think that your concerns go to the top of my priority list. Repent while you have a chance…..

    Don’t go away mad… just go away.

    Ps Rich Witmer
    Reply to this
    1. 3/31/2009 10:20 PM GenX wrote:
      OH my God. Yep, that's him. Now I am being told by former cell mates and friends that go to that Church that they want to "get all of us that they lost back." Gee I wonder how they "lost" us.

      This is a typical way he treats people. ANYTHING that contradicts HIS way is a rebellion against God. I am so glad I escaped. This just reinforces me to stay clear of that circus.
      Reply to this
    2. 9/28/2009 11:14 AM Tanya wrote:
      I ashamed to admit that I am related to Rich and Melissa. He disgust me so. How dare he call himself a MAN of GOD!
      Reply to this
  • 1/14/2009 10:07 PM Brad Ryden wrote:
    Jen, my hat is off to you for posting this letter from Rich. It does show, as you say much about his character, the evil, unloving and most of all ungraceful person he is. He claims to do the work of Christ but his own words and demeanor tell different. I wish more people who have received these hateful messages would post them. God bless you girl for your courage and willingness to share this. At some point I do believe the scales will fall off the eyes of the people at Generations and they will see what is really going on and Rich for who he really is. bnr
    Reply to this
  • 1/16/2009 8:23 PM Don Woods wrote:
    It is treason to criticize Gods Anointed!
    An authoritarian tragedy.

    "There was an unwritten but perfectly understood law in the church that was very important: No one is to criticize Father (Pastor), wife, or his children " (Jeanne Mills, 1979)

    Jeanne Mills spent six years as high-ranking member before becoming one of the few who left the Peoples Temple under leader Reverend Jim Jones in Jonestown, Guyana.

    Any disagreement with [Jim Jones's] dictates came to be regarded as "treason." ....Although I felt terrible about what was happening, I was afraid to say anything because I knew that anyone with a differing opinion gained the wrath of Jones and other members. [Blakey, June 15, 1978.]

    Conditions in the Peoples Temple became so oppressive, the discrepancy between Jim Jones's stated aims and his practices so pronounced, that it is almost inconceivable that members failed to entertain questions about the church. But these doubts were unreinforced. There were no allies to support ones disobedience of the leaders commands and no fellow dissenters to encourage the expression of disagreement with the majority.

    Public disobedience or dissent was quickly punished. Questioning Jones's word, even in the company of family or friends, was dangerous informers and "counselors" were quick to report indiscretions, even by relatives. Hmm....
    Has there ever been any reprisal against you for questioning a church leader/pastor or elder?

    The use of informers went further than to stifle dissent; it also diminished the solidarity and loyalty that individuals felt toward their families and friends.
    Have you ever been gossiped about or falsely accused or slandered by your church leaders/pastors/elders or fellow christians?

    Besides splitting parent and child, Jones sought to loosen the bonds between wife and husband.
    Have any church leaders/pastors/elders tried to divide your family?

    Once inside the Peoples Temple, getting out was discouraged; defectors were hated. Nothing upset Jim Jones so much; people who left became the targets of his most vitriolic attacks and were blamed for any problems that occurred.

    But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; (1 Cor. 11:3)

    Discernment is a spiritual gift. Prophecy is a spiritual gift. (Ephesians 4:11)

    "That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
    (Ephisians 4:14)

    "Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; "
    (2 Thess. 2:3)

    All through the Holy Scripture, The Apostles, Prophets, and Overseers of "THE Church" name names and warn people.

    The Yuma Heretics , promote a "Defective View of Christ, Another Christ, Another Gospel."

    How much of their "so called Works" are hay, wood, and stubble?
    Reply to this
  • 1/17/2009 7:41 AM Don Woods wrote:
    Righteousness

    But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God which is through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace (Romans 3:21-24)

    The basic manner in which Jesus fulfills the law of God for us is by justifying us "freely by His grace." He does this by offering us "the righteousness of God which is through faith."

    In the gospel of Jesus Christ, "the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed." It is the same righteousness that is spoken of in the law that is, "being witnessed by the Law." However, in the law righteousness is an impossible standard being imposed. In the gospel, it is a gracious gift being offered.

    This gift of righteousness is available to all who believe, to all who put their trust in the Lord Jesus Christ to be their Savior and Lord. This gift is, of course, FREE to the recipients. Yet, it was made available at great cost to the giver. This gift cost the Father His only begotten Son. This gift cost the Son His own life, as He paid the price of redemption to buy us back from the slave market of sin and death.

    Every person ever created needs this redemption price paid for them. "For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Now, for all who believe in the Lord Jesus, the righteousness of God is imputed to them, that is, credited as a gift to their heavenly account.

    Thereby, the Lord God justifies us "freely by His grace." The Lord declares us righteous is in sight by giving to us "the righteousness of God which is through faith."

    Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins. (1 John 4:10)

    Our love for God cannot save us, but His love for us can. It is because of His love that we are given His grace to enter the kingdom of heaven (Ephesians 2:8).

    The only thing we bring to the table for our salvation is our Sin.
    Reply to this
  • 1/21/2009 10:33 AM Don Woods wrote:
    Pulpit Pimps, Punks, & Prostitutes!

    The "Real Fruit" OF Witmer!

    When the rich steal from the rich, it's Good Business.

    When the rich steal from the rich for the poor, it's Noblesse Oblige.

    When the middle steals from the middle, it's Corruption.

    When the rich and the middle steal from the poor, it's Fiscal Responsibility.

    When the poor steal from the rich and the middle, it's Crime.

    When the poor steal from the poor, it's Tough Luck.

    Ask not.
    Take everything.
    Even my poverty.

    The following are some examples to sharpen your ability to discern:

    The Promotion of Punk/Heretic John Crowder
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKmVR8OutQk

    Prostitutes In The Pulpit
    by Chuck Baldwin
    "....sexual sin is not the primary problem in most churches today. There is another pandemic that is quickly destroying the modern church in America."
    http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2006/cbarchive_20070104.html

    Pimping Preachers-Pulpit Pimps
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itGAsP7raCA&feature=related

    The Heresy Hillbillies.
    Pulpit Pimps
    http://www.pulpit-pimps.org/
    Reply to this
  • 2/20/2009 10:07 AM Husband wrote:
    My wife is attending cell meeting for Bible study. I am genuinly concerned about this based on the brainwashing tactics of this church. I have warned her about this. What can I do to get her to see the truth about this cult?
    Reply to this
    1. 2/20/2009 6:47 PM Tracy wrote:
      Husband,
      If she is just attending cell meetings I'm assuming that she has not gone to an encounter yet. Once she does, you will have a much harder time pulling her out...(that's where the hard core brainwashing starts) so you need to do it now! Show her this site for starters.
      It's Christ she is seeking, take her to a REAL church.
      I really think we need to start an intervention program!
      Reply to this
    2. 2/21/2009 6:35 AM Don Woods wrote:
      More information needed.

      However, there are vast resources available. I suggest you check the links John has provided as well as Dr. Walter Martin's Religious infonet;

      http://www.waltermartin.com/

      You may want to contact the Pastor at Christian community Church on Highway 95 and Araby road.

      He is very familiar with Witmer and his henchmen's tactics and message.

      But most of all, "KNOW" your bible.
      Take your wife out of town on weekends. Take her to Other chuches i.e. Journey of Faith, Stone Ridge that teach the bible and do not try to control, nor manipulate you for $$$$$$$.

      Take her to dinner or make other plans to strengthen you marriage on cell nights.

      If she goes with you, and begins to attend these other churches, her cell will begin to shun her and she will begin to see the light.

      But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman [is] man, and the head of Christ [is] God. (1 Corinthians - Chapter 11 - Verse 13)

      You are the head, not her cell, Witmer nor Generations.
      Reply to this
    3. 2/22/2009 6:14 AM Don Woods wrote:
      Husband,

      The believer has three persistent enemies in this world: the devil, the wicked, and his own wicked nature. God has promised to deliver His people and trample their enemies. And so He shall! The devil's day is dawning—his time is soon come! The wicked shall be brought low and judged righteously for their lives of iniquity! And the Lord has already begun to tear the sin nature from the very being of His people! Praise God for His forbearance and His ultimate victory!

      He shall send from heaven, and save me [from] the reproach of him that would swallow me up. Selah. God shall send forth his mercy and his truth.
      (Psalm 57:3)

      "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them." (Ezekiel 36:26-27)

      The new covenant is about grace, as contrasted with the old covenant, which is about law. "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ" (John 1:17).

      "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh." The first verse in this prophetic promise concerns regeneration, spiritual new birth. Through faith in the Lord, our original, hard, lifeless heart is removed, and a new, pliable, living spirit is given to us.

      The second verse pertains to transformation, the ongoing development of this new life.

      "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes." The life that increasingly complies with the will of God depends upon the work of the Holy Spirit within us. We know that unredeemed humanity has no hope of living in a way that is pleasing to God. Yet, many Christians may be unaware that even the new creature in Christ cannot, on his own resources, please God.

      What is promised here is not an automatic experience.

      These two relational realities (humility and faith) also determine whether or not the Spirit of God is our resource, just as they were determinative concerning grace.

      Two statements by Jesus expound upon this fact. "You have no life in you…It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing" (John 6:53, 63). We do not innately possess life as God intends it to be lived. Natural human resources are of no benefit in developing a godly life. Such revelation is very humbling. If we embrace Jesus' evaluation of our personal inadequacy, then we are willing to relate to God in humility. There is a further truth in which we are to place our trust. "It is the Spirit who gives life." As we count on this truth, we are relating to the Lord in faith. The result of such humble reliance is that God's Spirit becomes our vitality for godly living.
      Reply to this
  • 2/22/2009 6:02 AM Don Woods wrote:
    "It is the Spirit who gives life"…

    [God] also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (John 6:63 and 2 Corinthians 3:6)

    The Lord's new covenant of grace is a covenant of the Spirit: "[God] also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant…of the Spirit."

    Any approach to God other than by the Spirit results in spiritual deadness: such as The Vision, Encounters, school of leaders, cell leaders, methods, programs, works, tithing, etc.....

    People need life, initially and continually. We need it initially, because we were spiritually dead due to sin and guilt.

    "And you…were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh…and were by nature children of wrath" (Ephesians 2:1-3).

    The only remedy for such spiritual death is spiritual life!

    "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)" (Ephesians 2:4-5).

    People also need life continually, "for the letter kills."

    If we were left to our best efforts after we were given new life in Christ, we would be struggling under a human performance bondage of rules and regulations.

    That is spiritually deadening!!!

    Jesus came to earth to offer people fullness of life.

    "I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly" (John 10:10). Jesus taught that if we looked to Him for our spiritual nutrition, we would find ongoing life.

    "And Jesus said to them, 'I am the bread of life'" (John 6:35).

    Jesus did not refer to Himself as a "leader" establishing a new religion.

    Rather, "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life'" (John 14:6).

    When the early disciples were freed from prison, they were not told to recruit members to a movement. Instead, they were instructed to "Go, stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this life" (Acts 5:20).

    The life Jesus provides is His life expressed in and through us: "Christ who is our life" (Colossians 3:4).

    That life produces a lifestyle marked by His love, His joy, His peace, His wisdom, His courage—and whatever else is of His holy character.

    The new covenant of His grace holds forth this life, and the Holy Spirit delivers that life into humble, trusting hearts.

    "It is the Spirit who gives life."
    Reply to this
  • 4/3/2009 7:58 AM Don Woods wrote:
    3 Steps to a successful Marriage;

    1. Flee Generations Cult
    2. Follow Jesus ( He is the only one that deserves disciples)
    3. Forgive one another unconditionally, like Jesus forgave you.

    Menlike Witmer makes it complicated and difficult.

    Jesus makes it simple and easy.
    Reply to this
  • 10/27/2009 7:45 PM KMF wrote:
    David, and JJ - glad to see you are both doing well. :)

    Back on topic though. I have never and will never attend Generations. I see their members on a near daily basis and I can say that I truly get a snaky feeling from them, and the thought of entering a building full of them is right up there with being thrown into a pit with vipers. It deeply disturbs me that people I was once friends with vanish when they join this "church." When I find out that they are a part of Generations, the ever-familiar, "Ohhhh..." slips out. I am a part of a church with the most wonderful, non-judgmental, loving people and we do several public outreaches on a regular basis - community-inclusive, not exclusive. What bothers me is that you never see them out loving "regular" people, or having events that focus on loving anyone in general. All I see is criticism and a truly Holier Than Thou attitude that seeps from them. I worked as a server before starting my current job and I can honestly say I dreaded serving those who were from Generations and being belittled by them. We (people in general) were not put on this earth to cater to G12ers. We were put on this earth to love EVERYONE, regardless of social standing, whether they are believers or unbelievers, rich or poor, or any other "adjective" you would like to insert. They truly make my stomach knot, simply because of the sickness that they have allowed themselves to become a part of. Troubling.
    Reply to this
  • 12/19/2009 6:19 AM Don Woods wrote:
    DISCIPLES OR LEADERS

    What does it mean to "Follow Jesus as a Disciple?

    "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations…Follow Me…If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." (Matthew 28:19; John 1:43; and Luke 9:23)

    Living daily by God's grace depends upon getting to know Him and then walking in the humility and faith that result from fellowship with Him. We must reflect upon four ways to relate rightly to the Lord in humility and faith: living by the Spirit, living by resurrection power, living by the sufficiency of God, and living by the promises of God. Another example is following Jesus as a disciple.

    When our Lord was about to leave His disciples, He gave them the marching orders that were to guide the lives of His people until He would return. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations." Jesus had been calling out people to follow HIM as disciples. Now, they were to continue doing the same.

    A disciple is a follower of a master, who guides and shapes the lives of his followers. Jesus is the ultimate Master, HE is the "ONLY" leader to be followed; who gives us a new life in Him—life eternal. Jesus' invitation to discipleship was "Follow Me."

    Along with this invitation, Jesus often explained the terms of discipleship: "If anyone desires to come after Me."

    This would inform the willing and interested about how to respond. These terms dramatically depict the necessity of relating to the Lord in humility and faith.

    The first aspect of being a disciple of Jesus is renouncing the self-life. "Let him deny himself." True disciples refuse to develop their lives by fallen human resources, such as Visions, Plans, Programs, etc...(which are inherited from Adam through physical birth).

    Thus, followers of Jesus are to repudiate self-sufficiency, self-help, self-righteousness, self-exaltation, and the like. Our willingness to embrace this term of discipleship will be seen by our humble agreement with similar biblical pronouncements. "Make no provision for the flesh" (Romans 13:14). Those denying self do not want the flesh to have opportunities to indulge itself. "The flesh profits nothing" (John 6:63). Those who renounce self confess its total spiritual bankruptcy. We "have no confidence in the flesh" (Philippians 3:3). Those who repudiate the self-life do not want to place any hope in the natural resources of the flesh. "That no flesh should glory in His presence" (1 Corinthians 1:29). Those denying the self-life agree that nothing of the flesh can ever boast in itself before the Lord God Almighty.

    Wherefore: Deny yourself, follow Jesus in humility, grow up in the Lord so you are not deceived by the cunning of man, then and ONLY then will you participate in making a disciple of Jesus...not a disciple G12 or some other cultic practice that those in "Leadership" can exploit!
    Reply to this
  • 1/20/2010 10:43 PM WorriedChristian wrote:
    I have never attended Generations, but my 19 year old sister currently is. I am worried about her and pray for her soul. I have tried to talk to her about this so-called church, but she won't listen to me. (We used to be pretty close.) She has attended for several months now, and has been to an encounter. Since then, she is not the same person she was before. Our whole family has noticed the change in her. She is more argumentative, always on the defense. Before "G", she had dreams of the AirForce. She actually enlisted, took her oath and was waiting for Basic Training, she was so excited. However, I think this church did something to her, they killed her dreams and put out the fire she once had inside her. She decided she wanted out of the AF, and she was given a discharge from her Delayed Entry Program. I'm so saddened that this church has taken her dreams from her and made her into someone I don't recognize anymore. I've asked her, begged her to go to church with me, to see what a REAL church is like. She refuses. Please help me, help her. Any advice?
    Reply to this
    1. 10/25/2010 6:59 AM Jeffery wrote:
      It is hard to see a loved one go through this, I can only imagine what you are going through. Generations does not want people in the military because they don't make enough money (straight from Rich's mouth) as you can see in this clip on youtube.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI8Ero1q2hY

      You may have to show her the light and help her realize that the church is not going to be there for her in her darkest hour. They will abandon her and she will suffer. It may take years for her to realize what is important, just continue to show her why Generations is a terrible place. Share this website with her. Show her that it is not a perfect place like they paint it out to be. Every single one of those people are sinners, and they put up a fake front and a fake smile to fool everyone and themselves.

      My advice is to sit down with her and share this website with her. Open her eyes to the atrocities that this church is responsible for.
      Reply to this
  • 10/18/2010 2:13 AM megan wrote:
    i pity those who are in G12 because they are so called Christians and yet they are fooled by this cult..our denomination was split into two because of this cult...the original and and the g12 our pastors who embraced this g12 bcome boastful and arrogant they think they are the one who is right... what those leaders think of themselves Christ to have 12 disciples? maybe they want to replace Christ as well...re in the im very sad to those who are in the G12 because they glorify and exalt this organization...they are blinded with money and want to be rich without hardwork...Jesus reprimand us when HE says Matthew 7:15-23
    15"Watch out for false prophets. Theycome to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
    21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'...
    Reply to this
  • 10/25/2010 6:45 AM Jeff wrote:
    I do agree with you, G12 is a religious pyramid scheme in which the church has their hands in your pocketbook. They should be ignored and doubted. I would not go as far as calling them a cult (technically Jesus and his disciples were once referred to as a cult) but they are definitely part of a pyramid scheme and are dangerous to lives they minister to. Eventually, they will lose all credibility and all of their followers will be heart-broken. The moment Rich is exposed, his life will fall apart in front of everyone.
    Reply to this
    1. 12/26/2010 3:37 PM GR wrote:
      Jeff...do some research before you encourage someone not to call this church a cult. They are contracted to be obedient to Ricardo Santiago, International Charismatic Mission, in Bogotá with Cesar and Claudia Castellanos. They are part of the New Apostolic Reformation movement.
      Also any so called (I do not call Rich a Pastor) pastor that abuses people the way Rich does is not of God. I pray that God gets ahold of him and takes him out of any type of leadership. He has abused too many people and he is leading a lot of people to hell. I also pray that anyone that is abused by him know that this is not of God and go to a healthy church that does shows the true love of God.
      Reply to this
  • 10/25/2010 2:38 PM G12 everywhere wrote:
    Hi, I'm from Argentina, I'm sad to hear the G12 has reached USA, since I was thinking it was only in central and latin-america. Here in my congregation the pastor is not such an hipocrite as in Generations, and the brothers are very loving, but this G12 thing was implemented and brought such bad consequences like the "leadership", prosperity, philosophies that I find so sickening, along with strange encounters and doctrine. I am so sad that I will have to leave this church, just because of Cesar Castellanos and his G12 heresy.
    Reply to this
  • 12/20/2010 1:02 PM crazy ness wrote:
    Generation people are like a virus. They keep asking and promoting their cells. It annoys me when im at work and people try to recruit me. Look loving god is wonderful but not if you are forced to do so and not to mention spend more time with your "cell" than your own family.
    Reply to this
  • 1/15/2011 5:28 PM Art wrote:
    I went to a few of the church meetings. It was interesting. The music was a lil too much for me (went on for too long) but i liked the style of preaching. It was much more interesting than the RC masses i went to as a child. But one thing got to me, every meeting went on and on about tithing. Now, i've not read the bible cover to cover, but i'm pretty sure that 99% of it is not about the subject of tithing, so why is it spoken of so much?

    I also found Pastor Rich to be the wrong person to lead such a church. He lacks the maturity. At one meeting, he was bragging about how a band member spoke up and he had him kicked out of the church.....very Christian. Then there was this one time i was having my hair done and Pastor Rich was on the phone bragging to someone how he had said this and that to someone on Facebook, and how he put him down. I thought yeah, typical immature Pastor.

    I stopped going but my wife continued. The suffers from various conditions and could not meet the demands of the church. If she didn't do the things that were expected of her, they made her feel bad and guilty and told her that her health issues were all in her head and she just needs to pray.

    She eventually came around and left once she saw how uncaring and manipulating they were. Once she left, everyone shunned her.

    If Jesus came to Yuma tomorrow and saw what Generations was doing i think he would cry.

    These "Christians" need to constantly ask themselves "what would Jesus do". I see nocomparison between the way Jesus taughed and treated others to what Generations does. Generations is an insult to God and they will be judged.
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  • 12/10/2011 12:29 AM no name yet wrote:
    wow!!! our pastor is startn to teach on g12, we r gettn togethr on certain nights to get taught on this movement. he is exposin the g12 practices an wants to educate us on this subject becaus it has gottn so popular n the churches an doesnt want any of our membrs to get suckd into.
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  • 12/26/2011 8:22 AM Tanya Hernandez wrote:
    I know that this questions is off topic, but does anyone know why Rich and Missy changed the name of the church from Generations to Destiny Church? If rumors of an IRS Audits are true, then maybe Rich is trying to evade the IRS by renaming the church and putting Missy and the other so called Pastors in charge?
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  • 12/28/2011 12:01 PM Radical Fish wrote:
    Tanya, I was an original member of Rich's first "youth church" and I can't even remember how many times the church changed names. Of the names I can remember off the top of my head, it's been called "ReGENeration eXtreme" (aka Gen X), Youth on the Rock, and Fusion before it was called Generations.

    Rich had a habit of changing the name and reorganizing at a new location each time things went bad. He used to blame the devil for things going wrong. We were denied a building space three times and when we did finally acquire one for a short time, it fell through. He used the as fuel for his cause saying "this is just one more way the devil is trying to stop us from spreading the word of God" whereas my mom used to tell me it was God's way of trying to stop an evil man from distorting the truth about God.

    I pray constantly for his church members to overthrow the church and his power and if you care about stopping him, I would encourage you to pray too. His mission statements, his visions, his rules and his game plans are constantly changing. It used to be a sin to wear make up and listen to modern music and have a social life when I was in his "church." Now they teach on the gospel of prosperity and the more you have, the better you can entice others to follow you.

    God's truth is quicksand to the work of the devil and Rich has to keep on the move to avoid people seeing him start to sink. The most important thing a person can do in this world -good or bad- is to leave a legacy. If Rich is in danger of losing his church, he will make sure other people help him spread as many seeds as possible and people will continue to follow RICH even if he winds up in prison someday. At this point, any harm that comes to rich will make him a martyr. If the seeds don't have time to grow roots then there's hope for the people of his church and that's to our advantage to reach out to those members of Rich's cult but the more established each church becomes, the harder it is to get people to leave.

    While I know many people are probably sick of what Generations members are doing, it's extremely important to remember they too are victims of Rich's deceit and for as much as they reach out to you, it's important to reach out back to them. If they shun and judge us, we can't shun and judge them back because Rich teaches them that we are the unrighteous judgmental ones. We can't prove him right. The most I can do from the other side of the country is pray. But I read every post written on this site, I read all the comments and I pray for all of you - generations members or not.
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    1. 1/27/2012 2:49 PM GenX wrote:
      Well, I respect your comment. I was once a leader in that Church. My personal life and walk with God are still recovering. This Church and that leadership is definitely toxic. I agree with you though. We can't hate on them and ostracize them, we need to reach out to them and pull them out of the fire.
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  • 12/28/2011 12:53 PM Yuma Guy wrote:
    They changed their name because of all the negative publicity the church has got. At first i heard Generations had shut down and i was like "uuuuhhhhhuuuuuhhhhh" because i knew they just wouldn't shut their doors like that, and later found out that they just changed their name and that includes cell groups.....those are called "Life groups" now.

    It would take more than a name change to elude the IRS.
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  • 12/28/2011 3:18 PM Sergio wrote:
    I was wondering about the name change from Generations to Destiny Christian Chuch as well. I wonder what reason Rich gave to his followers? Maybe they're just trying to shed the bad image of Generations because their membership and revenue was falling so badly, or what Tanya said. Maybe it has something to do with them staying out of trouble with the IRS. Anybody with ties inside the cult know or heard anything? Maybe it's time to change the name of this site as well!!! :)
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    1. 7/2/2012 11:26 AM SpirituallyAbused wrote:
      It is very interesting about the name change of the church, because the G12 church I attended (under Rich Witmer) in Kennewick, Washington - Word of Faith Center- also changed its affiliation at that time. The congregation was told that they would not be G12 anymore, but follow Casey Treat and his church in the same state. They are still affiliated with Rich Witmer and he still receives money from the Kennewick church.

      It appears to be a 'branding' thing, where they want to change their image because of the pain that was caused to so many people under the abuse of the pastors and leaders affiliated with G12, Rich Witmer and Ryan Graves (pastor at Word of Faith).

      The church in Kennewick has now appointed new pastors to help take over and very much involved in community outreach. Blood drives, etc. It is unfortunate because so many people know about the terrible secrets this church has hidden for years, involving the pastor's sister, church leaders having affairs with other leaders, babies being born and hidden because of sexual immorality in the church, etc. This may be the reason for the name change/branding change in Kennewick church. And, if it is going on here, you can bet it is going on in Yuma and other places Rich Witmer is involved in.

      They always speak about Spiritually Transmitted Diseases or STDs. When a leader is corrupt it is passed down to the disciples. I guess this statement is actually true!!
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  • 3/12/2012 9:38 AM coy wrote:
    Sorry to hear all the negative experiences at G12 - Yuma. I came to know the Lord using G12 and I thank God for it. Though several negative experience that I have and there are times that I wanted to quit this church and find another church but I learned this one thing - 'be guided by the Holy Spirit and remove any fear of men'.

    Right now, Im still part of the G12, but by the Grace of God and thru the empowerment of the Holy Spirit, this structure cannot contain me even if I am still part of the structure; But whether there is G12 or not, I will do whatever it takes to spread the Gospel. Clinging to heartaches cannot make you grow. Jesus said this Himself: "If your brother sinned against you, rebuke him; if he ask forgiveness, forgive him".

    I constantly praying to God for mercy for G12, I know there are still plenty of good people inside G12. As I make my own research and judging the structure - i found out that there is nothing wrong with the structure of G12. What makes it wrong is that when man inside the structure trying to contain the move of the Holy Spirit; but such cannot be contained in the four corners of the church. He is Lord and Sovereign.

    May God heal all the heartaches and bitterness resulted from immaturity of the church and may God uproot those church leaders who feed only themselves and who are harsh in handling God's sheep.
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  • 3/14/2012 6:33 AM leann wrote:
    The name change came from Rich in Davao Philippines. he made the announcement after he asked the senior pastor to resign due to sexual immorality. He said it was to make the three churches united together Davao, yuma and Manila.... sadly this is speading though out asia due to the prosperity gospel that is preaches... the cross isn't spoken, only at the encounter is that really talked about... they leave no room for discussion its all follow your leaders and if they don't want to follow then leave them... if you want to work with another mission organization or church... then leave g12... It took me months to get over my hurt and manipulation that I experienced in the Davao church. I can only imagine what its like in my home country in the states :(
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  • 4/1/2012 12:38 PM kidsguro wrote:
    am still hurting and angry after having left a g12 church not because of the pressures of my discipler/leader at Destiny Christian Church Davao but because of how the church misleads its congregation thru the teachings that are are wrong interpretations of the doctrines from the bible and the control the church wants to take over the lives of its "leader" and "members." the church imparts on the congregation a wrong and twisted interpretation of "submission" and "humility." other than that, the church has actually allowed remarriage of several couples who have come from annulled marriages and what is most alarming is that a couple who is actually a part of the senior pastor's 12 is one of them. sexual immorality has been rampant lately. and one of the ways that the church had wanted to impose on the members who are single is to prohibit dating.those single men and women who are presently dating are likewise advised and told to break-up. it is funny how this said rule is being implemented and imposed on single men and women who do not actually sin when the "Date" per se. they have actually overlooked the "sinful" marital status of that primary 12 couple who had come from annulled marriages and remarried. when the senior pastor was asked about the church's stand on remarriage and annullment, he actually said it was "case to case basis." how on heaven's name could he have said that and implied that we actually have the right to say when a failed/broken marriage can never be restored? it is stated in the bible how the Lord detests divorce and that remarrying after divorce is a sin. it has been a struggle having left a very close friend from way back g12 days in Destiny Davao. i have been praying and have been asking other friends to pray for friends left in Destiny Davao to be enlightened.
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  • 5/15/2012 12:34 PM change of heart wrote:
    well alot of the stories here are similar and its is sad to say that they are true. I have alot of bitterness towards them and have tried to find peace for the torment they have caused. I served them for years and had some good moments. not all the people there are bad, but the leaders have no sense of mercy and are not CHRIST like. they only care of funneling money through companies that are owned by rich executives, and saying that they are motivated by love. And the truth is, they are motivated by love.....Love of money , status, and of a an ideal of providing a life for a family that spews the gospel mixed with a "hitler-esque" approach to preaching. Rich is a very talented speaker and it is easy to see why he is able to captivate audiences for years... if some one is passionate enough, the point can be very much believable and absorb the human psyche. Unfortunately, if you were to be the unbeknownst listners, you would find youself giving up years and thousands of dollars before they severed ties with you. and many of their prey are those individuals whom have already been "rejected" by society. So it is easy to lure those and comfort them by offering sanctification by attending an "encounter".. but this is all too common. I hope that the individuals that are haughty and prideful are struck down and that their respective partners in crime receieve the full brunt of God's wrath for leading people astray and also destroying people's mental frame of mind and self-being. I hope that God will not allow these fakes another year to go on and that justice will be served swiftly.....
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    1. 6/15/2012 8:58 AM kidsguru wrote:
      while it is true that witmer is a charismatic speaker and a very talented one at that, his preachings do not at all speak of the true CHRISTIANITY that a pastor should speak about. all he talks about is G12 and leadership which sadly are not MISCONSTRUED and FALSE interpretations of discipleship! his interpretation of righteousness is very QUESTIONABLE and because of this the pastors he mentors have likewise acquired the same questionable interpretation. the G12 vision does not encourage scrutiny and critical thinking among the members of its community.
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  • 5/20/2012 8:48 AM Brad Ryden wrote:
    These words are heart breaking. I would ask though that you not become bitter, bitterness kills the spirit. Allowing that lets Rich and his minions win, and they are all nothing but losers. God is big enough to defend his church and his people. I don't know why God has held his hand back. In my own thinking it is to raise up people who will help gather the scattered flock. But God will move, of that I am confident. Keep praying for God to have the victory in this, pray daily. God listen and sees.
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  • 5/20/2012 9:06 AM Don Woods wrote:
    Amen!
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  • 6/11/2012 10:35 AM tagaDavaoPud wrote:
    Sorry to hear all the negative experience regarding G12.

    Aside from changing the name of few G12 churches in the Philippines to 'Destiny', they also change the name of the 'cellgroup' to 'lifegroup', but the essence is still the same.

    I have several colleagues inside the G12 church who are still hurt but afraid to leave the church coz if you leave - you will be called a rebel, and they constantly inject this mindset: 'you need a leader so that you will grow' when in fact the Bible clearly says: 'Apollos planted the seed, Paul watered but God made it grow'; You need Jesus Christ so that you will grow and not a person.

    I agree that most G12 people interpreted the word 'submission' to 'you become a slave to me' when in fact Jesus said: 'if you want to become the greatest, you must become the servant of all'.

    I am praying mercy for G12 here in Davao, may God not turn G12 churches in Davao to the cult and save us from being cult. I know that most people here have compassion over G12 people coz you still have friends who are still in bondage in G12.

    I hear a lot of G12's calling their leader as 'father' or 'daddy' and it grieves me. How I wish that God would open their eyes and see what is going on in the spirit.

    I even hear some G12 pastors who were doing missionary trip preaching G12 instead of preaching the person of Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross. they think that preaching G12 and doing encounter to those who are already Christians is equal to preaching the Gospel. They are just afraid to go to the frontlines and to die for Jesus.

    I dont know if Ceasar Castellanos knows regarding the harsh treatment over the disciples and to the extreme teachings. I never heard Ceasar says: 'hey you should call me your spiritual father and you should submit to me', I think Ceasar knew this verse very well: 'Do not call Father here on Earth for you have only one Father who is in heaven'.

    Please pray that God will uproot those G12 pastors and G12 leaders who are not on fire for Jesus but on fire for G12; and may God uproot those who twist the scriptures for their own advantage, and may God humble down those people who are very proud at their heart and call those small church as 'churchita'.
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  • 7/2/2012 11:01 AM SpirituallyAbused wrote:
    It is so sad to read all of the comments regarding the G12 cult in Yuma, but I must admit it is a little helpful in working through the abuse my family endured at the hands of church leadership in Kennewick, Washington at Word of Faith Center.

    I was one of the top leaders of this church and very much involved in the 'behind-the-scenes' events when Rich Witmer came to town to give his 'passionate' speeches that tore down rebels, etc.

    I was there when Rich read the letter to the leadership teams that Jennifer Ward received. In fact, Rich read the letter that she wrote and his response. Everyone cheered, including the Pastor Ryan Graves and his wife Natalie Graves.

    When we left Word of Faith Center (WOFC) in Kennewick, we were harassed by numerous leaders. We had to change our phone number and get police involved. We were told by one of the top leaders that we would divorce, be stricken with cancer and our kids would die - all because we 'uprooted.' The abuse we endured was very similar to coming out of the Mormon religion or other cults. It was crazy!

    We left because we were privy to some very secretive information that the Pastor was trying so desperately to cover up. We reported information and were told we were questioning authority and needed to read "Undercover" by John Bevere again. We were assigned this book to read six times (all leaders were). We thought we could help the church by remaining but by this time we were ostracized and called rebels. We knew we had to leave. When we confronted the pastor about the cover-ups and unquestionable acts, we were told 'in not so many words' to leave by leadership. It seems they were all trying to cover up the lies and deceit in order to keep the doors open and church operating, because if the congregation was privy to the information the place would have shut down.

    The Kennewick church has since tried to claim they are not G12, but are still affiliated with Rich Witmer. They do cells/connect groups, have leadership in place and continue doing encounters and discipleship training. This church is a facade that abuses its congregation in order to self-serve their needs and wants. People have been seriously abused by this cult-like church.

    The pastor (Ryan Graves) was placed into pastorship when his dad was stricken with cancer and died within 6 months. It was reported that his mother (over 500 pounds) committed suicide and his sister is allegedly an accomplice to murder of a toddler (the nanny is currently on trial). How this man is still able to lead a church is beyond the entire city of Kennewick. This information is not even remotely the reasons why most people have left the church, but only a tip of the iceberg. While they are so desperately trying to cover things up, the entire city knows horrid details about the life of this family and church. It is sad that they are still abusing people.

    Continued...
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  • 7/2/2012 11:12 AM SprituallyAbused wrote:
    The Word of Faith Center church in Kennewick, Washington preys on the young and uneducated. Most of their leadership team have a high school education at best. They are young, immature and desperately seeking approval and edification from a pastor who despises the college-educated because he, too, never attended a 'real' college.

    One of their top leaders, elders of the church, is a bartender, while another is a janitor at bank. Most are washed up 'cougar-bar fly's' who are desperately seeking approval from a man. This may explain why there have been many affairs among the leadership team and babies born out of wedlock to some unsuspecting members/leaders.

    This place needs God. Yes, the church needs God and the people should hear the truth behind Rich Witmer and the Word of Faith Center church he helped cultivate. While the church is trying to mask its relationship with Rich Witmer, they are still affiliated behind the scenes. At this point, the church leadership and pastoral problems go far beyond the relationship still existing between Rich Witmer and the Graves'.

    Since leaving this church, my family was blamed for not coming forward and expressing the problems. The pastor and his leaders told their leaders that we knew things but would never say anything. This is an utter lie. We told the leadership team and pastor and were told to leave. Now, this godly man spreads lies about us to cover-up even more of the hidden secrets he has so desperately been trying to keep under wraps.

    Thankfully we have not left God during this time of recovery from the cult, but were able to draw closer to Him. We hope and pray that others can get out like we did. Our son is now thriving and doing so much better - he has his parents back in his life.

    Please, if you come into contact with anyone from Word of Faith in Kennewick, RUN!! This place will do its best to destroy your lives, ever-so-subtly.
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  • 7/11/2012 8:31 AM coy wrote:
    Do Cesar Castellanos knows about all this? As I was searching google about G12, only Rich appears to be controversial. I didnt see any negative reports against Johhny Touzet or Lawrence Khong but I hear a lot of injured individual from those who leave G12 under Pastor Rich.

    I know Cesar Castellanos would not listen to accusation, but I guess this number of injured souls is enough to testify what is happening below - perhaps he could make his own investigation secretly to verify if this is all true - Im sure, he would find out the truth and makes a right judgment.

    I just hope someone might just send a letter or send this link to Pastor Cesar Castellanos.

    Recently, some leaders under him in the Philippines who were burned out -were called rebels coz they planted a new church, and many went together with them. When some former injured ousted from G12 heard that they planted a new church, they joined the new church.

    Though, some of those injured souls defended the new church when Rich called them rebels on facebook and reacted harshly towards Rich and it made a quite debate. I didnt see Jesus was being glorified in that scenario - only egos and pride.

    Though, recently, G12 couples here are taught "not to deprive with each other, the wife does not own his body".. it's a good thing for married couples who were struggling in their marriage.

    Im tired of seeing injured souls over and over again bcoz of immaturity of the church and of the leadership. I pray that God would intervene this time.
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  • 7/8/2013 12:35 AM Shane wrote:
    I, stumbling blindly through the internet this evening, found this site. As I read and recognized the truth in what is shown and talked about here, I had to shake my head and have myself a chuckle. I was part of Fusion for about a year or so, and prior to my attending there I had been an atheist. I became a strong believer at Fusion and felt like I was accepted there and wanted and respected.. I fell in love with God and really enjoyed the people. For a while. An elitism started showing itself in Pastor Rich first, then slowly through the rest of the upper level people. It was palpable, the feeling of someone constantly judging you out of the crowd if you missed a night of church, or if you were thought to be back sliding. Cell groups started, I got put in with Randy, who I don't believe is with the church any longer.. But my attendance to the church and my general faith in God were both cut off shortly thereafter. I won't get into why I prefer to maintain my belief that man cannot possibly know God's will whether he exists or not, that is for another discussion.. But it was definitely a feeling of rejection the few times I revisited the church to see old friends. I associate with none of them anymore, when prior to that I would have considered many of them good friends. It is most sad to me that people can't see that Rich, much like his name implies and much like many of his cohorts in the big church scene.. Is only in it for the money. He has been a douche to me since about the time I guess he could tell he was losing me, and I'm glad I was able to step back and see that there was something wrong with what was and is happening there. I probably remember some of you fondly from Fusion - Whether or not you remember me, I wish you all the best. I couldn't be happier to be free of the influence and snobbery of that place. I wish I had some pics or something to contribute to this site, but unfortunately I don't.
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  • 10/11/2013 1:48 AM exg12 wrote:
    I agree with u all. G12 is cultic! many small churches here in the Phils are deceived by these abuse of authority, heresy, and spiritual abuse feeding new christians with junk!!!! God have mercy on us all...I hate to leave our church, i grew up there and it's like my second family, but it came to a point that what their preaching is unbiblical, and way out of context just to suit the vision and make u obey...OBEDIENCE BY GUILT is very familiar here with all there bent reasoning...what happened to OBEDIENCE BY FAITH (Rom1) that we should be teaching others. I hope others would post more updates here esp. with regards to the G12 MOVEMENT i would very much like to share it with my friends and relatives that are still in G12 church. Pls...thank u!
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  • 11/9/2013 9:52 PM metronome wrote:
    Its so sad that I was actually removed from my NETWORK page and scolded for not acting maturely when my cell mates were having fellowship without me. It hurts that youre irrelevant normally, now you get scolded just for wanting to be in fellowship with your co-disciples and because you are going through some trying times, you get removed from the disciples??

    I seek God, not a system. I guess all of us here feel the same.
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